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A Family History

              Phyllis Grime 1895-1982

The Grimes

Phyllis Grime was born on November 12th 1895, she was named after an Aunt on her father's side who had married Murray Hasler, a member of the Ashton family of cotton manufacturers. I remember my grandmother Phyllis well, both from my childhood and early manhood. She suffered from deafness, brought on possibly, by childbearing.

As a young woman she had been fond of music and singing - her deafness must have been especially vexing to her because of this. The eldest of a family of five, Phyllis must have taken on much of the burden of raising her brothers and sisters when her father William died in 1913. She held very strict views on alcohol consumption - a consequence of her father’s addiction to drink.

I am afraid that Phyllis had a rather pessimistic view of the world. Perhaps she liked to worry. She lived through two World Wars and her husband, brothers and sons all survived unscathed. On the face of it she had a lot to be grateful for and yet somehow did not seem to see this. Nevertheless, in her own way she loved her family and they loved her.

A restless individual with lots of energy, she found growing old to be a great frustration. There was nothing she liked more than to be going somewhere but when she arrived seemed to want to be off again. After his retirement, she chivvied her husband Arthur into house hunting for a bungalow. My father described her as "looking for a smaller house that was bigger, somewhere else in the same place".

Phyllis' father, William Grime married Mary Hannah Tomlinson on October 4^th 1893, he was resident at 79 Lomax Street at the time and Mary Hannah had been living at Belgrave Cottage. The marriage certificate shows his occupation as a Paper Maker and Mary Hannah as a Cotton Weaver.  We had always believed that Phyllis was the firstborn of the family.  In fact, in 1894, William and Mary Hannah had had a boy named John. Sadly, John did not survive; he died in June 1896 some seven months after his sister's birth. John is buried in the Tomlinson grave in Darwen Cemetery.

William's other children were William Beckett (Billy) born around June 1901, David born 10th December 1909, Elizabeth and Jack. Elizabeth and Jack died in infancy.

David & Billy Grime
I remember Great Uncle David (left) and Great Uncle Billy from my childhood. Billy died of cancer on October 27th, 1966. He had been a heavy smoker and even as he lay in bed with radiation burns on his chest he was still puffing away on a last cigarette. He is shown on the right with his son.

Billy married twice; first to Eveline Hothersall, between April and June 1921, by whom he had a son John (known as Jack) born in the second quarter of 1925. Evelyne died in 1943 and much later, spring 1954, Billy was to marry Annie Croft. Billy served in the Army in WWI and saw action at the front.

Great Uncle David survived his brother by 11 years. He died on March 25th, 1977 - another cancer victim and another smoker. David married Margaret McDonald on May 22nd, 1934. Margaret survived until January 26th, 1997. David joined the RAF during WWII as a fitter and served in the far east. After the war he worked for a time in a greengrocers shop in Darwen before joining the family business. He was a lively chap and popular with the customers. Either for fun, or out of boredom, he seems to have memorised the contents of the shop - and to assist customers with their list of purchases he would recite the options in alphabetical order: Bacon, butter, cheese, eggs...... etc. etc. David was a nice man, and always pleased to see me. I think my dad was a special favourite of his and he carried a photograph of dad as a baby in with his driving licence, it was there at the end and still survives today. All of the family were keen on music and enjoyed singing. They were involved in the choir at Belgrave Chapel. Much of Phyllis' sheet music is still intact - although some of it, along with song-books belonging to both Phyllis and David were lost as a result of a fire at my parents home in 1991.

William Grime 1869-1913

Great Grandfather William Grime died at Primrose St on Christmas day in 1913. His obituary appeared in the Darwen News on Saturday Dec 27th.

"The death occurred on Thursday at his residence, Primrose Street, of Mr William Grime. The deceased gentleman had not been well for some time, and for the past three weeks had been confined to his house. He was 44 years of age.

Mr Grime will be remembered as a son of the late Mr John Grime, paper manufacturer, and along with his two brothers carried on this business in Hannah Street. He was a well known gentleman in Darwen, and particularly by his association with the Belgrave Congregational Church and Sunday School. He was a member of the School Choir for many years. A widow and three children are left to mourn their loss. The funeral will take place at Darwen Cemetery on Monday next."

In William's case "not being well for some time" appears to be a euphemism for chronic alcoholism. Oral history has it that he was enjoying the company of "pink elephants" at the time of his death. I'm not sure, either, that the three children did much mourning but it seems his widow loved him for all his faults.

My Great Grandmother, William’s wife Mary Hannah, died much later on December 22nd 1952. The obituary was published on Dec 26th.

Daughter of Former Mayor
Death of Mrs M. H. Grime

A daughter of a former mayor of Darwen Mrs Mary Hannah Grime died on Monday at the age of 85 at the home of her daughter Mrs A Taylor at Bebington Rock Ferry. Before going to Bebington about a month ago Mrs Grime lived with her sister Miss Tomlinson in Nightingale Street. Mrs Grime was a daughter of the late James Tomlinson mayor 1904-05 and was the widow of Mr William Grime who died during the Christmas of 1912.

A well known and highly respected lady she had a life long association with Belgrave Independent Meeting House where she had taken a prominent part in many activities and she had also supported other good causes locally. She leaves her daughter and two sons Messrs William B Grime and David Grime both well known in connection with Belgrave and the amateur stage in Darwen.

My grandparents share William and Mary Hannah's grave in the non-conformist section "C" of Darwen Cemetery. The monumental inscription makes the following tribute.

In loving memory of William Grime who died 25th December 1913 aged 44 years
Also Mary Hannah his beloved wife who died 22nd December 1952 aged 85 years
Also Elizabeth their beloved daughter who died 27th July 1904 aged 2 years
Also Arthur Taylor dearly beloved husband of Phyllis who died 25th September 1960 aged 67 years
Phyllis Taylor died September 29th 1982 aged 86 years.

William Grime was born on the 15th January 1869 in Darwen. He was the eldest son of John Grime and Elizabeth Beckett who married at the Independent Meeting House in Over Darwen on July 16th 1868. - six months before William's birth.

In 1901 my Great Grandfather William was at 85 Olive Lane with wife Mary Hannah, my grandmother Phyllis (5) and her brother William Beckett Grime (2).  William's job is that of Commercial Traveller in (the) paper trade.  Next door at No. 84 is brother Fred (31) and his wife Mary L. (29).  Fred worked as a Stationary engine driver and fireman.

Meanwhile David, John Lomax, Elizabeth Ellen and Phyllis, the other children of John and Elizabeth, were at the family home 79 Richmond Terrace (formerly Marsh Terrace).  David and John Lomax were working in the paper business, Elizabeth Ellen was a Cotton Warper and Phyllis kept house.  The parents, John and Elizabeth were staying in Colwyn Bay with a retired farmer John Williams.  As indicated in the obituary shown below John appears to be convalescing.  His occupation is listed as Paper Finisher while Elizabeth is described as a Sick Nurse. 

The 1881 Census returns show the family living together in Marsh Terrace.

When John Grime died in 1901, William, along with his brothers, inherited their father's paper converting business, Sunnybank Paper Mill, in Hannah Street. I visited the factory only once, while it was in the stewardship of David and Billy. The paper making machinery was driven by wide canvas belts, one end of the belt was attached to a rotating overhead pulley, the other end being deftly thrown onto a pulley attached to the machine in question by the operator when power was required. At the time of my visit the factory was engaged in making cardboard strips, specially shaped and cut to protect the ends of the large rolls of paper produced by other paper mills in the town.

The power for the pulley system was provided by an ancient steam engine which had recently been fitted with an automatic feed system for the coal that heated its insides. Prior to that, I supposed, someone had the job of feeding him by hand and in 2005 I was to find out who that was.

Family History research is full of little mysteries which is one of the reasons it appeals to many people. We, that is, my uncle, my father and I, are absolutely convinced that the steam engine was called Jacob. This is not just a vague memory but vivid to us all. Thus we were astonished to discover that when Jacob "retired" he was placed on display at the corner of the site occupied by Darwen Grammar School and labelled as "Nellie". A series of articles had appeared in the local newspapers at the time of the mill closure and the subsequent disposal of the engine.

The mystery begins in 1972 just prior to closure of the factory. Uncle David is shown with Sam Ward the last of the engine's "keepers". Sam was the third generation of Ward's to tend the engine and he must have been doing the job when the automatic coal feed was introduced. His father William Ward lived at number 51 Hannah Street and also looked after the engine. He lived from 1887 and died in Bull Hill Sanatorium in 1919 from the effects of WWI. His father Hugh Ward (in one of the newspaper articles he is wrongly named as Herbert) also looked after the engine. He was born about 1853.

The articles and pictures appeared in the Advertiser and News and the Lancashire Evening Telegraph. Initially, no mention is made of the engine's name.

Only later in the subsequent article is the name Nellie given and indeed, Sam Ward is credited with having nicknamed the engine.

Is it possible that the family had Jacob as a name for the engine and Sam didn't know? Frustratingly the articles do not quote David giving a name to the engine. Of course we will never fathom the confusion. But the engine is now forever "Nellie" and she sits at Moss Bridge sporting her blue plaque.

Sam's daughter Heather, who's mother Annie also worked at the mill, provided the newspaper cuttings and much interesting detail besides. She moved to Australia in 1977 and lives in Melbourne.

This is what Heather recalled about the factory:

".......here as promised are my memories of the Mill. I have given you a few details in my previous messages, so I will try not to repeat myself too often.

Regarding my family's involvement in the mill, as far as I know, my paternal great grandfather Hugh Ward, 1854 - early 1900's, worked there and in the 1881 census his occupation is listed as paper stainer, in the 1901 census, as a paper machine man. His son my grandfather, was William Ward  1887 - 1919, whose birth and marriage certificates list Hugh as a papermaker. On William's death certificate in January 1919, he was living at 51 Hannah Street and his occupation is listed as paper mill firebeater.

As a child my father, Samuel Ward, lived at number 51 and at number 49 during his married life, that is where I was born. I saw the mill every day from 1944 to 1967 when I married and moved to Blackburn. When I came home from school I would go into the mill to get the house key from mum or dad, so I saw quite a lot of it. My father worked there until the early1970's when he retired being 65 years old.

I have attached a drawing of the mill as I remember it. I know there were lots more machines, but the memories have faded. On the upper floor, Machine 'B' needed four operatives, funnily enough I remember that one very clearly as my mother Annie Ward worked on that machine. The other ladies at that time were Annie Haresnape, Annie Martin and Edith Mann (she was in the photo I sent you). This machine made cardboard tubes which were placed in racks to dry as they were covered in paste. On bench 'A' the ladies made paper bags of different sizes. There was a lift in the centre of the mill and steps near the office., to connect to the ground floor. As you entered the mill through the front door, the machine 'C' stood out, as it was a huge revolving drum which hissed steam. I think this was used to stick two rolls of paper together, then dry it, making a thicker paper product.

As you remembered there was a product made called  "protectors' which my father used to make. this involved using long strips of cardboard which were passed through a guillotine (D) set at an angle so that only half the width was cut, the cut was also at an angle to the edge of the board.  Then the strip was passed through machine E, between two wheels, one of which ran in a groove in the other, therefore making a crease down the length of the strip. This protector was then used to fold around the ends of large rolls of paper to "protect" them whilst being transported.

 My father's main job was looking after the fires and Nellie. Stepping down into the boiler room he would shovel coal into the two openings to feed  the fires within, closing the doors he would tap on the water level gauges  to make sure the boilers were at the correct level. He used to talk to Nellie and at closing time he would make sure that the flywheel was in the correct position for starting Nellie up the morning after. The newspaper cutting I sent to you of David and my father next to Nellie showed how little room there was around her. Walking around Nellie and climbing up a few steps to a level above the boilers and then down another lot of steps, took you to my father's workshop area, where he maintained the mill's machines. Passing through the door from here towards the rear of the mill took you to an area where if you turned right you could enter the office and left would take you through a passageway under the stairs to the ground floor of the mill. The main drive wheel came through the wall near the front door and drove all the machines by a complex system of shafts, wheels and belts. There was a door at the rear of the mill where trucks would load and unload, but I cannot remember where it was.

Once a year the mill would stop for a few days whilst the flues were cleaned, this involved my father climbing into the fire openings and cleaning out all the dirt and soot, he would come home looking like someone out of the Black and White Minstrels. I might mention that we did not have a bath and the only sink was in the kitchen, what a difference these days !

I hope that you can understand all this, if not please do not hesitate to contact me , this has been a trip down memory lane for me,

Best Wishes Heather "

The factory is mentioned in "Industrial Heritage: A Guide to the Industrial Archaeology of Darwen". The entry reads:

"Built about 1855 by John & James Brandwood as a paper staining works and leased to Stafford, Standing & Duckworth. In 1858 Potters took over the business and closed it down. After this date the building, which had room for 90 looms, were used by various cloth manufacturers, among them James Garstang, J&J Aspden, who failed in 1865, and J&J Gregson.

 In 1867, James Watson converted the mill to hard waste spinning. Watson moved to Starkie Street in 1897 and textile activity ended. The mill was taken over by John Grime of Cotton Hall for paper glazing and finishing. This use continued well into the twentieth century and production finally ended around 1972.

Remains: a derelict single storey building, with a brick facade remains on the site of the cotton mill. The north-facing wall incorporates the square chimney base and parts of the engine bed. The single cylinder vertical engine by George Rushton, Britannia Foundry, Darwen installed in 1898 to run the paper glazing works, has been preserved as a static display at Moss Bridge, Lower Darwen."

 
John Grime started the Paper Making business in Hannah Street in 1898.  A copy of the solicitor's bill for arranging the lease for the premises is reproduced below.

In the 1950's an aerial photograph was taken, capturing the factory for posterity. John Grime (Darwen) Limited Paper Converters is shown circled in the picture below. The picture is reproduced from "Images of England : Darwen", compiled by Martin Baggoley, Tempus Publishing Ltd.

The spare land next to the mill, was loaned out to the father of Heather Ward's best friend, a Mr Knowles. He kept a greenhouse on it, in which he grew tomatoes and another shed in which he bred budgerigars.

John Grime 1839 - 1901

John and Elizabeth Grime had at least six children. Fred born in Sudell Road Darwen on 19th February 1870 died 1941, David born on the 18th December 1871, John Lomax born in 1874 while the family were living at Oswaldtwistle during John Grime's time at T&J Eccles Brookside Mill, Elizabeth Ellen (known as Great Aunt Libby to me) born in 1876, and Phyllis born in 1878.

The only one of these that I remember is Phyllis and then only very vaguely. Phyllis married Murray Hasler (both shown on the right) and it is from him that my Uncle and I derived our middle name. I only met them once when we visited their house in Morecombe. Even then, the only recollections I have are of eating a meal with my sister, both of us seated at a card table placed outside the back door. The food consisted of salad followed by strawberries and at the time I disliked both.

Another memory relates to a large bookcase in the parlour which, I opened, and took out a copy of Macaulay's Lays of Ancient Rome - my dad was always reciting the first few verses. This seems to have caused some consternation on the part of Great Aunt Phyllis, they were a childless couple and not used to little boys poking around in their possessions.

The next time I visited the house was in 1963 after Phyllis' death. On this occasion my sister came away having inherited a rather gaudy tea service with butterfly handles - strangely enough, today it looks very attractive. I came away with the copy of Lays of Ancient Rome. The family also holds a beautiful 15 minute repeater watch that belonged to Murray Hasler.

Phyllis' brother David and her sister Elizabeth Ellen lived together at 1 Whitehall in Darwen. Neither of them married. David died on April 20th 1944, while Elizabeth survived until 1957. John Lomax, known to one and all as Great Uncle Jack ended his days in Lytham St. Anne's.

Great Uncle Jack(shown left on the left) and Great Uncle David. On the right, Great Uncle Jack and his wife Ethel.

 

When John Grime died in May 1901 the following obituary was published in the Darwen News.

                                John Grime 1839-1901

Death of Mr John Grime

Wednesday 8th May 1901

At four o'clock on Monday morning Mr John Grime passed away at his residence, 79 Richmond Terrace, in his 62nd year.He had been ailing for many years and had spent the last four winters at Colwyn Bay where the climate is less severe. When at Darwen Dr Hawarth attended him. The cause of death was chronic bronchitis. The deceased gentleman was a native of Darwen, and was very well known in the paper trade, in which he had spent practically all his life, having risen from the position of a back tenter to that of manager. He served in the latter capacity at the old Knott Mill, then at Brookside Mill, Oswaldtwisle near Blackburn; and afterwards at Grimshaw Bridge.

He severed his connection with the Grimshaw Bridge firm some 24 years ago, and then commenced business on his own account as a paper glazer and finisher in an old portion of the mill. He only stayed there a few years, however, removing to Cotton Hall about 20 years ago, and three years since he left Cotton Hall for Sunny Bank Mills, Hannah Street, which he had worked ever since along with his sons, who will carry on the business as usual. Mr Grime married the eldest daughter of the late Mr William Beckett and he leaves a widow and grown up family of four sons and two daughters. He was of a very retiring disposition, was a staunch Liberal and was connected with Belgrave Chapel, although his health of late years had prevented him from attending that place of worship. The interment will take place at noon tomorrow (Thursday) at Darwen Cemetery.

John and Elizabeth and some of the others in the family are buried in Darwen Cemetery non conformist section "F". The monumental inscription records both birth and death dates for John & Elizabeth - providing conclusive evidence that John was the child of David Grime and Ellen Whewell.

The resting place of John Grime born June 7th 1839 died May 6th 1901
Also of his wife Elizabeth born Jan 3rd 1840 died July 21st 1914
Also Fred their son who died Jan 28th 1941 aged 50 years
David their son died June 20th 1944 aged 72 years
Also Elizabeth their daughter died October 16th 1959 in her 84th year

Probate was granted to Elizabeth on May 29th, 1901. The Gross value of the estate amounting to £2,407 - 19sh - 2d. John's will was drawn up in 1899. The contents are shown below.

This is the last Will and Testament of me John Grime of no. 79 Lowther Terrace Darwen in the County of Lancaster and I hereby revoke all former Wills and Codicils. I appoint my Wife Elizabeth Grime and my friend Christopher James Beckett of no. 83 Park Side Terrace Darwen aforesaid as trustees and executors thereof subject to the condition which follows and which must be taken as part of the bequest I give, divise and bequeath to my four sons William, Fred, David and John Lomax in equal shares upon my death the whole of my interest in Sunny Bank Paper Works including land buildings machinery stock in trade book debts and all other assets of the Works All my liabilities in this request must however be discharged by them.

The condition previously referred to being that my said four sons shall pay to my executors during the lifetime of their mother the sum of sixty four pounds per annum towards her maintenance payable in quarterly instalments upon the last days in the months of March, June, September and December in each year such payment to cease upon the death.

In consideration thereof it is my earnest desire they should work the mill for their mutual benefit and in brotherly relationship with each other I bequeath the whole of my household furniture and effects to my wife absolutely I further direct that the residue of my property both real and personal shall become vested in my trustees and executors upon the following conditions and with absolute power of sale and realisation that they shall pay the income accruing from same to my wife during her life in addition to such other sums as may be found necessary for her maintenance

Any surplus revenue which may remain shall be paid to my two daughters Elizabeth Ellen and Phyllis in equal proportions should such income prove inadequate for her due maintenance I give to my executors discretionary power to pay her such principal sums as they may deem requisite but such principal shall not however be drawn upon if the income arising from such residue shall amount to forty pounds per annum If the income arising therefrom should fall below this sum then I direct that my executors shall pay her from principal such sums only as may be necessary to raise such residue income to forty pounds per annum.

Upon the death of my wife I further direct that the residue shall become the property of my said two daughters in equal shares I further direct that my funeral expenses and all charges incident to this Will shall be paid out of the Paper Works Estate and the residue herein referred to in the proportions of two thirds and one third respectively In witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand this ninth day of November One Thousand eight hundred and ninety nine.

John Grime's parents, David & Ellen, married on the 20th May 1839 at the Parish Church in Blackburn. They were probably non-conformists but at this time marriages could only be made at Blackburn. The marriage entry describes David's occupation as Printer. John was born on June 7th in Henrey St, very shortly after the marriage. The certificate shows his father's occupation as Labourer. The 1841 census shows David and Ellen living in Lumb St.

Betty must have been born about 1835. By 1851 the family had grown and we find them living at 99 High Street Over Darwen.

David died of Typhoid Fever on January 2nd of the following year. I have not found any record of his birth or burial. According to the marriage entry for David and Ellen, his father was a Weaver also called David, and her father was a Weaver called John.  I believe that "Old" David, the Weaver, was born around 1776 and that he died at Tockholes on January 26^th 1841.  There is a death certificate for David Grime, a Weaver, showing him dying of Asthma at Tockholes.  The age is shown as 63 but the death occurred in January so the date of birth from this calculation would be 1777.  I think this is close enough, given the approximate nature of date usage at the time.  There are no other candidates in the tree and he doesn’t appear in the 1841 census.  Moreover, the marriage certificate of David Grime (the younger) and Ellen Whewell in 1839 gives his father’s occupation as Weaver and does not say deceased.

It seems reasonable to believe that “Old David” died between May 1839 and the 6^th June 1841 – the date of the Census.  Given all of this and Hunt’s reference (see below) to a son called Briggs Grime it looks likely that “Old David” married an Ann Grime (possibly a cousin) on April 30th 1797 at Blackburn.  I have been unable to positively trace “Old David” in the baptism records, but the weight of evidence from the registers suggests that he was the son of William Grime and Ann Knowles who married on September 4th 1766 in Blackburn.

The generations of Grimes that were spawned by William and Ann contained many Davids amongst their numbers. It is safe, I think, to make this link.  His father, William Grime, was one of the sons of Jeremiah Grime and Mary Fish who married on May 15th in 1738 at Blackburn.  The Lancashire Parish Record Society records show that Jeremiah was baptised on the 25th of April in 1705, son of Jeremiah Grime a Webster of Upper Darwen. The outline descendant tree gives details of Jeremiah's family and illustrates the proliferation of Davids.

Young David's wife, Ellen Whewell, was part of a very old Lancashire family. The Whewell's existed in the middle of the 16th century at the family seat, a house known as Whowells. The Whewell's were strong dissenters as far back as the reign of James II. One George Whewell was the executioner of the Earl of Derby in 1651. Our Ellen was born on February 9th 1810 and baptised in the Wesleyan Methodist Chapel on the following March 19th. Her mother's name was Betty.

Jeremy Hunt's recollections, dictated in 1887, have a chapter dedicated to the Grime families of Darwen, it opens with this paragraph.

"They are a considerable family in Darwen, are the Grimes, there are so many different branches of them. My great-grandmother, that is, my grandfather John Leach's mother, was a Grime. There is a tradition in the family that the first Grime that ever came into this district escaped out of York Castle with a chain to his foot, and settled on a lonely farm on the edge of Oswaldtwistle, just on the other side of Pickup Bank Height. Three townships meet at that point - Oswaldtwistle, Haslingden, and Pickup Bank, and it might be the end of the world instead of the end of these townships merely, for it is a lonely place yet, and must have been very lonely three or four hundred years back, when the escaped prisoner hid himself in its seclusion. I have no authority whatever for saying what offence had caused the first Darwen Grime to be chained up at York. I will suppose that he was a political prisoner, but for aught I know to the contrary he was a sheep-stealer or a highwayman. Anyhow, it is to the circumstance of his escape from York Castle that we owe the fact of the Grimes settling in Darwen and one of them becoming our present Mayor."

One thing is certain, the Grime family existed in Darwen as early as 1642. In the Protestation Returns of that year, men aged 18 or over were required to take an Oath to defend the true reformed Protestant religion, Parliament and the King. The returns contain the names of those that took the oath and those that refused.

The Protestation Returns shows an Ellys Grime in Lower Darwen at this time.   Surrounding townships outside of the Blackburn area show further instances of the name.

        Rivington 1
        Edgworth 3
        Quarlton 1
        Spotland 10 (Rochdale Parish)

Curiously there is no Grime listed in either the 1660 Poll Tax for Upper or Lower Darwen, neither does the name appear in the 1664 Hearth Tax return. The Hearth Tax returns listed both those who paid and those that were exempt so, in theory at least, if they were there they should have been listed.

However, the Lancashire Parish Record Society (LPRS) transcript shows a baptism entry in 1669 for July 4th Ellis son of James Grime of Upper Darwen

The 1591 Rental for the Manor of Over Darwen lists freemen and manor tenants but again no Grimes are shown.

The LPRS contains later references to other Grime’s.

        George s. of Ellis Grime of Upper Darwen 4 Dec 1699
        Rachell d. of Ellis Grime of Upper Darwen Webster.... 15 Oct 1701
        Margret d. of Ellis Grime of Upper Darwen 20 July 1703
        James son of Elias Grime of Upper Darwen Webster borne 15 Oct.... 24 October 1703
        Hannah d. of Ellis Grime of Upper Darwen a Webster.... 13 January 1705

And of course:

        Jeremiah s. of Jeremiah Grime of Upper Darwen a Webster 25 April 1705

Hunt's recollections also contain a reference to our branch of the Grime family. I believe it to be inaccurate - - but it does give a number of useful clues.

"Once upon a time there was in Darwen a David Grime, of whom I personally know nothing, except that he had four sons and three daughters. One of his sons was David, whose widow is living yet, aged 78. I have been to her for information, but all she can tell me is that she thinks their family are old Darwen Grimes, and that her husband was the eldest son of his father. She was formerly a Miss Kay, daughter of "Owd Skriking Aleck." She has two sons - William Grime, the cotton manufacturer, married the only daughter of James Varley, clogger, and he has two children, - a son and a daughter. His brother John, the paper bag maker, married the daughter of William Beckett, and has four sons and two daughters. A second son of old David was John Grime. He died on the Lee a few years ago. His wife was a Miss Isherwood, of Hey Fold, and he had four sons and two daughters, who, I think, are all living. Another son of David the Unknown was called William, and the fourth was christened Briggs. There were also three daughters. The only near relation of their generation living is the old woman mentioned above, widow of their brother David, and she can only tell me what I know about them myself - nothing!"

The reference to John Grime makes it clear he is talking about our John. However we know that John's mother was Whewell and not Kay. The only explanation I can provide is that Hunt had confused two families. He admits he doesn't know the family well and the 1841 census shows a candidate for "Old" David's wife.

This Ann was the wife of "Old" David Grime and Briggs would therefore be his youngest son. (Briggs died 30 July 1883 and was buried in a common grave.) This still does not tie up with Hunt's reference to a "Miss Kay daughter of Owd Skriking Aleck" since the marriage register shows "Old" David marrying Ann Grime.  The case is further strengthened by the details in Ann's death certificate and the marriage certificate of Briggs Grime and Mary Eccles. Ann is described as Widow of David Grime a Weaver and the death was reported by William Grime of Bolton Street, Briggs’ marriage certificate gives his father’s name as David Grime, occupation Weaver.  

Ann’s age is shown as being 81 years old at her death and so would have been born about 1773.  The other mystery concerns the David shown as aged 10 in the 1841 Census.  Who is he?  There was a David born to David Grime and Mary Townley in 1830 at Carr Hall in Tockholes.  This David was a nephew of “Old David”.  “Old David’s” death was reported by a Richard Townley, another clue!  All in all, too many David’s to fathom with absolute certainty.

Returning to young David and his family, after David's death in 1852, Ellen moved again, this time to 11 South Street and her eldest daughter married a William Walsh. The 1861 Census provides the following record.

Ellen was living at the same address in 1871. Mary Ann, her daughter was still with her but William, Betty and her husband had moved on. Ellen had let a room to a Richard Williams, Public Schoolmaster aged 28 born in Droylsden.

She was still alive aged 72 at the time of the 1881 census, the address is shown as 43 South St. She was living with Walmsley Preston a mechanic aged 36, described as her son in law and a widower. Nonconformist section "C" of Darwen Cemetery contains the following inscription, which accounts for Mary Ann.

In memory of Richard Preston of Over Darwen who departed this life July 3rd 1868 aged 64 years Also of Mary the beloved wife of the above Richard Preston who departed this life November 6th 1887 aged 72 years Also of Mary Ann daughter in law of the above and beloved wife of Walsmley Preston who died November 8th 1880 aged 39 years Also of Susan wife of Robert Preston who died October 28th 1900 aged 69 years Also Robert Preston son of the above Richard Preston who died March 7th 1915 aged 83 years

Ellen died on April 4^th, 1893 at the age of 84. She had been senile for twelve months and was living at 79 Lomax Street at the time of her death. The death was reported by William Grime her grandson.

The 1881 census also shows an entry for William Grime, the son of David and Ellen born about 1847. The details tie in with the information from Hunt's recollections.

William married the daughter of James Varley, Clogger on July 1sy 1870.  The marriage certificate shows that her father had died some time earlier.  One of the witnesses was called Duxbury Varley, presumably Ellen’s brother.  The birthplace of Oswaldtwisle shown for James Varley Grime is also interesting.  John Lomax Grime was also born in Oswaldtwisle at about the same time.  Perhaps the brothers John and William were working there together at the Brookside Mill.   In 1901 William and Ellen were at 18 Bank Street in Darwen and both Elizabeth and James Varley were still living with them.   William is described as a Cotton Manufacturer and James Varley Grime as a Cotton Salesman and Clerk.   They must have been doing quite well in the business, Hattie Fell, aged 17, is shown at the same address as a Housemaid (domestic).

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